Curse

Gun Pierson · Feb 17, 2009, 01:13 AM // 01:13

First of all I would like to explain that I'm not talking about taking recources away from GW2. That said can Anet convince NCsoft to fund some extra people on GW1? Would it be a good move?

They're a few arguments I can think of why this may seem interesting for all sides:

1) Anet: it would mean they could hire some junior devs who could learn the do's and don'ts under a senior. So in some time they'll be seniors themselves within Anet. A healthy thing to do imo.

It will also strengthen the feeling Anet still strongly support GW, even more than they do now. And it doesn't get in the way of the 'total silence about gw2' strat.

2)playerbase: would get more content faster and other things to keep us busy until GW2.

Can even bring in some bucks, which may be a good argument to convince NCsoft. For example a mini expansion like 'Sorrow's Furnace' for like 5-10 euro in the online store. Seeing that people still buy stuff, it's almost guaranteed a mini expansion will be massively bought.

A lot will depend on what the economists and analysts at NCsoft calculate, if enough money can be made from it to cover the costs or not.

Age · Feb 17, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

I would say a lot of the resources went to to Aion.

Dr.Jones · Feb 17, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

first off i think ncsoft is anets publisher not there boss. i could be wrong about that but from what i read anet dose the highering and makes the decisions behind the game where as ncsoft gets them the recorces they need to market the game and sell it.

hallomik · Feb 17, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Anet recently increased the GW1 dev staff from 1 to 2, so they're headed in that direction a little bit. I would like to see some more content, too, and I'd be happy to pay for it.

I don't know how many people listened to that 4th quarter earnings report in its entirety, but one of the questions was about what items they planned to offer for sale in their in-game store for one of their new games (I forget which new game - not GW 1 or 2). The answer provided was basically, (paraphrasing here) "We don't know. It will depend on what the players ask for." Therefore, if there is enough community clamoring for more content and a willingness to pay for it, more paid content could be offered.

On the other hand, they are activating 200,000 new accounts each quarter. They may be happy with that revenue stream - a figure that has held steady for each of the last 3 quarters. If they perceive more of their revenue to come from new accounts instead of existing players purchasing more content, new content is unlikely.

One key factor that plays into that is how many existing, active players have purchased all options (all three chapters, the EOTN expansion, the BMP, a few slots, and the GOTY edition, etc.). If that percent is relatively low, I wouldn't bet on any new content, as there is still plenty of room to grow by them doing little.

Lycan Nibbler · Feb 17, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

first off i think ncsoft is anets publisher not there boss. i could be wrong about that but from what i read anet dose the highering and makes the decisions behind the game where as ncsoft gets them the recorces they need to market the game and sell it.

anet is a subsidiary on NCSoft so I would suspect NCSoft has the final decision on budgets etc.

Regina Buenaobra · Feb 17, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

We have had two people on the Live Team since last summer, one designer and one programmer. We already asked for and received approval to add another person to the Live Team to help us maintain GW1. We mentioned this in the January 15 Developer Update.

EDIT:

Apparently I misspoke. We are definitely adding resources to the Live Team, but it's not going to be one person. What we're going to be doing is getting more of multiple existing staff members' time to work on GW1.

Gun Pierson · Feb 17, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Yes, but I was more thinking in the line of doubling the team to 5-6 people or is that unacceptable? Maybe even up to 10.

I think it's an opportunity.

FoxBat · Feb 17, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Yes, but I was more thinking in the line of doubling the team to 5-6 people or is that unacceptable? Maybe even up to 10.

So exactly which profits are going to fund these people?

Gun Pierson · Feb 17, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

So exactly which profits are going to fund these people?

Things we as the community would like (all within reason and common sense ofcourse) and would pay for through the online shop.

You guys have enough fantasy to fill me in on that. One example I think of are the gods that don't have an elite area by accessing their monument in e.g. ToA yet. I think it will sell.

Or an armor pack, like 5 new (elite) armor designs per class. Could be DoA armor or what not. It's just an example, don't kill me yet.

pumpkin pie · Feb 17, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

it is no where near realistic imho.
training juniors will take up a lot of time from the seniors. not to mention if they mess up and the need to patch things would means even more works then is already required. we need people that could do the job and not mess up.

If my suspicion is correct, if and when Anet decided to add 10 professionals to work on the live team, players are gonna ask for even more.

i am not so sure about game coding but how will the job be divided between these 10 people working on the live team? you can't expect one person to be nerfing one skills or 10 person working on the storage issue? its a waste of human resources.

just a thought.

Regina Buenaobra · Feb 17, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

It's not realistic to ask for 10 people. We are hiring at ArenaNet, but it's not for GW1.

s73ve_o · Feb 17, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

i think the other gods' versions of UW and FoW are ideas that i personally have wanted added since i first talked to the avatar of dwayna and they asked for an offer but i couldnt give one. it is something that should have been there from the start and i would probably pay for it.
As far as the armor goes i really wouldnt care that much, but im guessing it wouldnt be worth the effort just to add more player skins

Silverhand · Feb 17, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I personally would rather have new elite areas(in regards to domains for gods) rather than get new elite armor sets

fireflyry · Feb 17, 2009, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Imo it's only justifiable if it's needed.

No plans for any large form of new content, in my mind, means there is really no need to ask or expect more resources.

GW1 just needs to tick along, as is,...doesn't it?

Silverhand · Feb 17, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Imo it's only justifiable if it's needed.

No plans for any large form of new content, in my mind, means there is really no need to ask or expect more resources.

GW1 just needs to tick along, as is,...doesn't it?

Well I hope they have plans for new content because based on the letter posted on the website. We have a long wait for gw2 and I don't know how large the player base will be if there is a long wait with no new content at all

fireflyry · Feb 17, 2009, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverhand

Well I hope they have plans for new content because based on the letter posted on the website. We have a long wait for gw2 and I don't know how large the player base will be if there is a long wait with no new content at all

That's kind of my point though.

People are assuming GW2 will need fanbase from GW1 to be viable and/or successful.

Wrong.

I think it's hard to really get a grasp on how incorrect this is when primarily discussed on a GW1 forum full of qq and whiny vets.It's easy to assume that, based on the complaints here, GW2 is going to be utter fail for the way they have ended the game.

Problem is this forums opinion is 100% minority and by the time GW2 rolls out will be largely irrelevant.

"GW1 ended badly and I will never buy GW2 because I'm so angry and annoyed!!!!!Grrrr!!!!"

Yup...see 95% of you in GW2 when your over it.

It's also non-subscription.

People really have no right to demand new content or resources, it's not like anyone here didn't get their monies worth.

Once people actually compute the differentiation between the non-subscription and subscription formats and adjust their expectations accordingly they will have a much easier time of it and realize their anger and disappointment was wholly misplaced, based on little more than false expectations.

GW1 is largely done and just needs a couple of minders.

If that's an issue move on imo.

Silverhand · Feb 17, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I'm not angry I was just pointing out another view
I have plenty to do before gw2
Actually i Just now beat eotn yesterday
So I'm by no means finish
Besides I've played for close to 4 years
So I figure I'm along for the rest of the ride that is gw
I suppose il c u in gw2 as well

fireflyry · Feb 17, 2009, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Fo sho dude.

Good luck to you.

Konig Des Todes · Feb 17, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

To all those wanting new areas in GW1 - It is, for the most part, not possible unless they pull resources from GW2 or add 10 or more people - which as Regina said in this thread, is not possible.

Not too long ago, Linsey did a basic overview of what is needed for a new area:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey Murdock

First I would like to break down for you guys what is needed to set up a new zone ("elite" status or otherwise) including how many different people it takes and then I will talk a little bit about new content in general. A new zone requires these things:

1. Map: This means a level designer to work with the lead on the project to get down the layout and flow of the zone. It then gets kicked over to the level artists who will lay down all the terrain textures, wall cladding, lighting, props etc to turn the zone into the final product. While the level artist is working on that, another artist is needed to create new textures and props to support the new aesthetic of the map for the level artist to use (even if we reuse a majority of existing assets, some of this is still needed). An effects artist will also likely be needed for new effects which add to the aesthetic of the zone. Then we need the level designer to generate the mini map and get the map hooked up in the world.

2. Design: A designer is needed to detail out the overall design and drive the project. A couple other designers are needed to assist in designing and writing all of the quests, NPCs, mechanics, chatter, etc. <This could be done by one person, but as a frame of reference, to introduce M.O.X. as a new hero with his quests it took one designer to drive the design of M.O.X himself, Me to design the overall design of the four quests, and two other designers to design the details of two of those quests all over the course of two months and believe me when I say it was still stressful and tight on time.> A writer is needed to go through all the text making edits for spelling, grammar and awesomeness. Once those edits are done, Jeff Grubb does a continuity pass for any red flags and a last round of edits are made. Then the text goes to localization where a team of people translate everything into the languages we support. A designer is needed to design out all the creature armies, their skill sets, themes, etc. An item designer is needed to design any special items functionality (things like consumables, green items, etc) as well as design out what loot can drop in the zone and all of their drop rates.

3. Art: A concept artist is needed to concept out the overall aesthetic of the zone, any armor, weapons, NPCs, new architecture, bosses, monsters, etc. Everything gets concepted before being made. A character artist makes any armor pieces needed as well as new NPC models. A creature artist makes any new creatures (reskins or otherwise). An animator is needed to animate any new models or adjust animations that are disfigured based on the reskinning (for instance, M.O.X. needed some substantial help to get him moving and using his anims properly at his size. He used to float around a lot and not in a good way). A prop artist is needed to create any new items that can't use the amazingly versatile "red bag" model. A concept artist is needed to make any new inventory or skill icons. If we make anything like books or other containers (like the Moa incubator) then we need a graphic/UI artist to fix up the images on each page or to create the UI art. An effects artist is needed to make any skill effects.

4. Implementation: A creature designer makes all the species needed (that's NPCs, monsters, and any other things which are spawned), this is usually someone who's entire join is creating species, but it can be done by two or three of the regular designers like myself who have been trained in how to set this delicate stuff up. The item designer hooks up all the inventory and bundles items needed. Again this is something that another designer can technically be trained to do but items are even harder than species so it generally falls to the one man who knows everything about our item system. Same deal with setting up the loot lists and drop rates, but this is even more scary and delicate so it isn't easy for someone who is not intimately familiar with the system to pick it up and get it done without serious training. The designers on the project then take all the species generated and script out all the spawns for the base spawn, the quests, any special NPCs etc. Once the spawns are down in at least their most basic state, it can be sent to a content programmer who hooks up all the quests, special mechanics, special items, skills, monster and NPC AI, etc. New sounds need to be recorded and coded into the map too. New mechanics like the battles down below in the Turai BMP mission required a lot of prototyping and additional server, engine and graphics programmers to make work at an acceptable level. If there are any cinematics, that requires another team of people to code the cinematic, do any special animations, effects, sounds, etc.

5. Testing: Once most of the pieces are together, a QA team begins searching the zone for bugs. Bugs are all over the place like animation glitches, floating props, effects not working, creatures spawned in unpathable spots, quests blocked, too many creatures spawning in an area, quests interacting with other quests poorly, spawns being too difficult, drop rates, skills not working or acting strangely, missing effects or icons, typos in text, text not localized, crashes, drops in frame rate, disconnects, you name it we got it. So round after round after round of bug fixes are made by all the people previously involved. Then there are rounds of testing for playability, balance and continuity and subsequent rounds of tweaks and more bug fixing.

6. Release: Marketing and Web are needed to working on any promotions being done. A web page for the feature needs to be created complete with its own text and graphics requiring more peoples time and effort. Update notes need to be compiled and checked against what is in game. A Dev Update needs to be written and edited. Community needs to be up to speed on everything involved. All the files involved have to be integrated up to the Staging servers where the whole testing process begins again with another round of bug fixes. Then everything needs to be integrated up to the Live servers and distributed out.

I know there are lots of things I am leaving out, but this should at least give you all some idea of what is required for just one zone. We are talking about ~20 people MINIMUM to accomplish. I would LOVE to make a new God Realm. LOVE. But getting all these resources at this point would be extremely difficult.
On the topic of new content in general, I mentioned a little bit about what it took to make M.O.X. so you know that doing any new quests is not a trivial task. I don't even want to talk about how stressed I was trying to get the Wintersday quests done in half the time with less people. From start to finish, a single quest can take around a month of development. Granted, certain people only work on it in specific stages but never-the-less, it is a time consuming process. But in all honesty, I would not have been as interested in working on the Live Team in the first place if I was not going to be able to add new content at all. It was the first question I asked when I was assessing whether or not I wanted to leave the GW2 team for this. In the six months since we started, the Live Team has already added a brand new hero with his own series of quests and brought Wintersday to the Eye of the North with its own series of quests. That is new content and I fully intend for us to be adding more small pieces of new content like this as we move forward. It's all just a matter of acquiring the resources and time needed. We have a VERY LONG list of things we want to do and new content is certainly on it. We know you guys want it and we do want it too.

And with that, I am going to end this epically long response and go home for the day. -

Linsey talk 03:15, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ons10#New_Area

Fril Estelin · Feb 17, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Something to keep in mind: Linsey posted a little while ago the kind of work that goes behind creating a "zone" in GW, and it'd require a small dedicated team of a dozen+ artists, designers and devs.

EDIT: see post above for details

It's totally unrealistic to have that kind of team expansion given the timeframe for GW2, but the Live Team is growing as Regina announced a while ago. From a business perspective, GW1 is the bridge to GW2 for Anet and they'll only try to keep "us" entertained when it doesn't require too much work. Non-casual players are asking for changes that would require a lot of money, which is not something wise to do when: a) the global economic situation is difficult; b) "you" are laying off people (NCsoft Europe, but Regina also mentioned people in the USA); c) you have to "survive" for another 1-2years.

I think the April update will be a refreshing one, but we shouldn't expect "content", but rather "features". People want to be addicted to GW1, but it's not the original vision that the game designers had for GW1. They don't want us to be addicted, they want us to enjoy it as much as we can, stop playing it when we've had enough, and then come back to it to get a fresh new fun experience. People want the p2p feeling that the game is constantly providing them with content, challenges and rewards, but GW1 is not in the category. I know people would be ready to pay for more content, but once more it's not Anet's philosophy (the BMP was an exception, not the rule).

A long while ago, there was a thread on game addiction on Guru and how GW1 could have been designed to avoid hooking us in the way some other games do (as someone recently said here, some WoW players are only paying their subscription by loyalty to their guild, it must make Activision Blizzard very rich!). We see the give-GW1-more-ressources kind of threads all the time (a.k.a GW1-needs-new-stuff), see Sardelac, but it's not going to change a company policy that was set a while ago and the way 100+ employees work.

They make a decision based on their philosophy, but also to be able to pay the employee their wages. We've been spoiled for so many years without subscription that it can give the impression that they can stretch their resources at will. But they're planning carefully I guess, trying to make sure GW2 will be a resounding success in such an uncertain world with a depressive economy.

I thought yesterday while chatting in-game with a friend that GW1 is not "dead", it's just a "ghost". People see it, play it, but think it lacks the consistence that other MMOs have. Except these MMOs run on "blood" (paying money every month) while GW1 runs on very little. The GW1 ghost may be invisible to many who have quit the game, but it's still there, running for many other GW players.